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Richard King
Member since Oct-24-01
352 posts		 Jun-29-06, 12:24 PM (EST)
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"A/C Problems"
 
   A/C was a bit ineffective in recent hot weather - last recharged a year ago. Investigation showed that the compressor was leaking via its clutch/pulley area.

AR show that a repair kit 994 2326 might be available for the compressor - anyone used it? or should I look for a secondhand one?

Also the engineer said that the expansion valve was keeping the system pressure too low and should be replaced - 6081 1831. He was not specific as to what effect too low a pressure would have - anyone more knowledgeable?

I had the system recharged again hoping that it will last for the rest of this year and do an overhaul next spring.

Richard King UK
90 V6 A/T Lusso Red


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dennism
Member since Nov-28-02
18 posts		 Jun-30-06, 11:16 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: A/C Problems"
In response to message #0
 
   Richard, I just had my compressor out. It is a Sanden 709, quite a universal unit made in Japan, I believe. You should be able to get a rebuilt one, I think, or the parts to re-seal it.

I don't know about the control valve. Mine was judged to be OK.

I took mine out to have the system changed over to 134a refrigerant. The oil in the compressor was changed, new dryer fitted and the system re-charged. So far, I'm very happy with the results, and it's 100F outside these days in Kansas.

Before that, it was charged with R12, and when that became obsolete, with whatever replacement refrigerant the technician recommended. This year, he simply didn't have a replacement, and suggested I look elsewhere.

I did, changed over, and everything is working fine. Your mileage(kilometerage?) may vary, of course. Dennis Martin


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MacsRock
Member since Apr-20-04
44 posts		 Jun-30-06, 01:55 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: A/C Problems"
In response to message #1
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-30-06 AT 02:06 PM (EST)
 
I have been reading up on this to convert my "91 to R134a. There are two expansion valves, one for R12 and one for R134a. Vick Auto has them both (in USA). Some have used the R12 expansion valve with R134a the pressure will just not be up to what it should be and will not cool as well as it should. Oil should be drained and replaced with ester oil before the conversion, some just add it. It is my understanding that it will work either way. The old mineral oil will just take up space in the system but not "mix" in or cause a problem. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I need to buy a vacuum pump and do the conversion because it is HOT in Tennessee. Go to www.ackits.com and go to their forum, lots of reading to do there and lots of good info, even a poor soul with a 164 that installed Freeze 12 and soon fried his compressor. Read on that forum why that happened. Stayed up the other day 'til 1:30 AM reading that stuff.
Also my understanding that all new receiver/dryers are R12 and R134 compatible. Good idea to flush system before change over as well, or not truly necessary if your system is not filled with "black death" caused by a failed compressor or the wrong combo of refrigerant/oil.
Charles
'91 164L 5 speed


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mjkhpns
Member since Oct-22-01
3476 posts		 Jun-30-06, 02:54 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: A/C Problems"
In response to message #2
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-06 AT 01:02 PM (EST)
 
I get my shaft seals for SD-709 and SD-508 and SD-508 shorty aka SD-507 compressors from this tractor supply place in Walla Walla, WA USA http://www.haroldelectric.com/

They stock special tool and carbon seal for shaft end of compressor. Hard to believe, but they have to keep those wheat farmers cool in those big tractors.

It is just amazing what I can find on the internet to fix an Alfa 164 with.

Pictures of seals and tools:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?p=229246#post229246

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
AROC 164 Tech Advisor
sdpatchin@aroc-usa.org
http://www.aroc-usa.org/tech/index.asp
http://www.aroc-usa.org/

Daily drivers: 91 Bianco 164B ALFA 4ME, 91 Argento 164B 1QUIK AG
164L Rescue projects: 93 Rosso, 91 Argento, 91 Nero (now an organ donor); 91 Verde 164L
"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"


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Richard King
Member since Oct-24-01
352 posts		 Jul-06-06, 11:34 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: A/C Problems"
In response to message #3
 
   Thanks Steve,

Having had the system recharged as a short term measure last week, it has now stopped working altogether. The compressor runs continuously, no bubbles in the sight glass, heavy frost on the expansion valve, heat exchanger is not very hot but no cooling at air vent at all.

Is it possible that the expansion valve is blocked? Might try blasting it with a hot air gun to see if I can clear it !!

Tried AR for replacement valve, 60811831 (R12) superceeded to 7794459 (R12 or R134 ? )

To make things worse, the radiator temperature thermostat is behaving intermittantly. Was there a VW one that could be used, I seem to remember? Must get one urgently as I don't want to warp the heads.

Finally I would like to check the temperature meter thermostat resistence but my manual does not have any data. Anyone been there and done that? and knows what it's cold resistence should be please.

I have had a few years of reliable use but is my 164 now trying to tell me something!!!

Richard King UK
90 V6 A/T Lusso Red


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mjkhpns
Member since Oct-22-01
3476 posts		 Jul-06-06, 12:25 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: A/C Problems"
In response to message #4
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jul-06-06 AT 12:29 PM (EST)
 
Richard,

7794459 is calibrated for R134a but if using R12 would work and be better than a clogged old one.

Wahler type 6017 VW Passat switch has two speed connectors like 164

See this example for a 93 Passat
http://www2.discountvdubparts.com/parts/parts1/discountvdubparts/quote.jsp?year=1993&product=G5030-49866&application=000187926&part=Auxiliary%20Fan%20Switch&category=G&returnurl=null&dp=false

Add a three postion toggle switch to ground each relay seperately so you can run either low or high speed fan.

Do you have dual speed fan with resistor in radiator shroud for low speed if so check that resistor is not fried. You can hook two wires to resistor together for summer to bypass resitor if bad and run high speed fan only, too.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
AROC 164 Tech Advisor
sdpatchin@aroc-usa.org
http://www.aroc-usa.org/tech/index.asp
http://www.aroc-usa.org/

Daily drivers: 91 Bianco 164B ALFA 4ME, 91 Argento 164B 1QUIK AG
164L Rescue projects: 93 Rosso, 91 Argento, 91 Nero (now an organ donor); 91 Verde 164L
"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"


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Richard King
Member since Oct-24-01
352 posts		 Jul-06-06, 12:57 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: A/C Problems"
In response to message #5
 
   The UK 164s do not have the dual speed fan facility.

Thanks for confirming the expansion valve is for R134 - I'll get one ordered on AR.

Regarding the compressor, which needs a new seal, the AC people were telling me that the shaft wears and replacing the seal does not always last very long - suspect this might be a ploy to get them to fit a new compressor but what's your experience? AR seem to do a repair kit that I was thinking of getting.

Just got to find a local someone to depressurise the system now.

Richard


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mjkhpns
Member since Oct-22-01
3476 posts		 Jul-06-06, 04:03 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: A/C Problems"
In response to message #6
 
   Shaft seal is a carbon seal and does not wear on shaft OD it is spring loaded against piston axial plate surface so really no wear. Oring can leak by edge that holds bushing into front cover and maybe real source of leak from age not wear. Carbon seal can crack or wear to but not steel parts as carbon softer.

A/C compressor aka axial rotary piston pump is same concept as hydraulic pumps used on jet engines which all have long lasting carbon seals. I used to rebuild those pumps for all kinds of US Naval aircraft.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
AROC 164 Tech Advisor
sdpatchin@aroc-usa.org
http://www.aroc-usa.org/tech/index.asp
http://www.aroc-usa.org/

Daily drivers: 91 Bianco 164B ALFA 4ME, 91 Argento 164B 1QUIK AG
164L Rescue projects: 93 Rosso, 91 Argento, 91 Nero (now an organ donor); 91 Verde 164L
"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"


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Richard King
Member since Oct-24-01
352 posts		 Jul-07-06, 03:26 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: A/C Problems"
In response to message #7
 
   Thanks again Steve,

To replace the seal then, do I have to split the whole thing apart or can I do it by removing the clutch side only to access the seal?, but only after depressorising the system.

I guess it would be best to remove it completely from engine to work on it and has the benefit of being able to remove most of the old oil from the system.

I have tried to access some of your pictures on the BB site but need to register first. How or where can I register please.

Richard


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mjkhpns
Member since Oct-22-01
3476 posts		 Jul-07-06, 04:04 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: A/C Problems"
In response to message #8
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jul-07-06 AT 04:46 AM (EST)
 
Go to www.alfabb.com and register and Simon will send you email with password.

To replace seal you will need to remove from car so remove headlight and alternator first.

Once on bench pull clutch and pulley (replace pulley bearing too)

You replace seal from shaft end so no disaassembly of compressor required. First there is a dirt/dust wiper to pop out and then using I listed you remove seal assembly and metal bushing that holds outer o-ring.

Seal/tool info http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=27067

I hate to say this but reassembly opposite of disassembly. Not really but close.

I will try to post some picture of changing front seal soon on BB.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
AROC 164 Tech Advisor
sdpatchin@aroc-usa.org
http://www.aroc-usa.org/tech/index.asp
http://www.aroc-usa.org/

Daily drivers: 91 Bianco 164B ALFA 4ME, 91 Argento 164B 1QUIK AG
164L Rescue projects: 93 Rosso, 91 Argento, 91 Nero (now an organ donor); 91 Verde 164L
"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"


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Richard King
Member since Oct-24-01
352 posts		 Jul-31-06, 11:24 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: A/C Problems"
In response to message #9
 
   Hi Steve,

Been investigating the compressor overhaul situation here in the UK, tried Sanden who, in no uncertain terms told me that my R12 compressor was leaking because there was now R134 in it AND told me they were not allowed by law to sell any spare parts for R12 systems.

Tried a couple of aircon repair companies who due to the age of the car politely decline to undertake any work.

Not having the tools or spares then, I think I'll leave the compressor as is, get the system flushed out and fit a new expansion valve. Hopefully the leak won't be too bad and I might get away with a re-charge each year at the beginning of summer, which will be cheaper than paying for a new compressor.

Thanks for help,

Richard
90 V6 A/T Lusso Red


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mjkhpns
Member since Oct-22-01
3476 posts		 Jul-31-06, 03:20 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: A/C Problems"
In response to message #10
 
   Why don't you contact those farm boys in WA state and order shaft seal and tool I listed in earlier post and get you a new pulley bearing too.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
AROC 164 Tech Advisor
sdpatchin@aroc-usa.org
http://www.aroc-usa.org/tech/index.asp
http://www.aroc-usa.org/

Daily drivers: 91 Bianco 164B ALFA 4ME, 91 Argento 164B 1QUIK AG
164L Rescue projects: 93 Rosso, 91 Argento, 91 Nero (now an organ donor); 91 Verde 164L
"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"


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