From: FredAlfa@aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 12:58:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 164 batteries
My 164 was built in 1990 and the battery in it is the original, 7 years old
now. I will be pleasantly surprised if it lasts much longer even though it's
a strong as ever. However, I feel it wise to know which replacement will be
best for it. I found the perfect battery made by Interstate which has the
special vent hose to outside the car. If you look at the battery compartment
of my car, there is no sign of any corrosion or even crud around the
terminals.
The Interstate number is 31P-PHD vented, made for 164s.
Fred Di Matteo, AROC Tech Advisor, Fort Myers, Florida
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 22:12:29 -0500
From: Ferdinando Di Matteo
Subject: Battery not being charged fully?
If your battery is never quite fully charged all the time, I may be able to
help you. I have some voltage regulators that will make your alternator put
out the maximum voltage and current necessary to fully charge. Tell me
which M/Y Alfa you have. Fred Di Matteo AROC Tech Advisor Fort Myers,
Florida
From: Mark Jones
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 08:54:00 -0500
Subject: 164S SPARK PLUGS
REGARDING THE QUESTION OF ALTERNATIVE SPARK PLUGS FOR THE 164S. I TOO
HAD THOSE CRAPPY BOSCH PLATINUM PLUGS GO AFTER 20 TO 30K MILES. THEY
FARED EVEN WORSE IN MY GTV6. I WILL NOT WASTE $ ON THOSE AGAIN,
STANDARD CHAMPION PLUGS WORKED BETTER, LASTED LONGER IN MY CARS.
CHAMPION N7YC PLUGS SEEMED TO WORK WELL, AND THEY ARE A BARGAIN, SO WHO
CARES ABOUT PLUG LIFE.
THE LOCAL DEALER RECOMMENDS THE LODGE 2HLS, FOR COST REASONS, THEY CLAIM
THEY WORK PRETTY WELL, THOUGH NOT AS WELL AS THE COSTLY NGK PLUG.
THE ORIGINAL NGK PLUG WAS #PFR6A, NOW #PFR6B. THE PFR6B PLUG REQUIRES A
SMALLER SOCKET, SO THE SPARK PLUG TOOL SUPPLIED WITH THE CAR WON'T WORK
WITH THE NEW PFR6B PLUG. THE NEW PLUG ALSO IS SHORTER, REQUIRING YOU TO
SLIDE THE RUBBER PLUG WELL SEAL UPWARD ON THE CONNECTOR. BELIEVE IT OR
NOT, THE LOCAL MOTORCYCLE GARAGE CLAIMS THESE ARE ORIGINALLY DESIGNED AS
MOTORCYCLE PLUGS! THEY LISTED A DIRECT SUBSTITUTION FROM NIPPON-DENSO
AS THE #P20R. I DID NOT FIND THESE IN STOCK AT MY FAVORITE PARTS
PLACES, BUT I DIDN'T LOOK VERY HARD EITHER.
RECENTLY, I WENT AHEAD AND PAID FOR THE NGK PLUGS ALONG WITH OTHER WORK
I HAD DONE. IT RUNS CLEARLY BETTER THAN I REMEMBER IT EVER DID1 BUT I
COULDN'T POINT OUT THE CAUSE AS I ALSO HAD INSTALLED REPLACED THE O-2
SENSOR, IDLE AIR VALVE, AND REPLACED A LEAKY VALVE SEAL.
THE 164S IS A BARGAIN FOR THE LEVEL OF PERFORMANCE IT PROVIDES. IF IT
COSTS A LITTLE MORE FOR PLUGS PERIODICALLY, SO WHAT. I COULD HAVE PAID
A WHOLE LOT MORE FOR ANOTHER CAR PROVIDING EQUIVALENT PERFORMANCE, THAT
USED INEXPENSIVE PLUGS. (THAT RATIONALIZATION WORKED ON MY WIFE)
I'D LIKE TO TRY THE NIPPON DENSO #P20R NEXT TIME. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT
THEY COST?
MARK JONES
91 164S
86 GTV6
92 164L
-----------------------
From: Mark Jones
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 14:37:00 -0500
Subject: 164S SPARK PLUGS
NGK no longer distributes the original 164S spark plug #PFR6A or #PFR6B.
(They may not be a motorcycle plug anyway.) Get them through the Alfa
dealer and pay through the nose! However, the NGK platinum plug
#BPR6EVX (or by their stock number as #6764) should be the correct
substitute. (Or #BPR6ES for the standard, non-platinum plug) I came to
this by starting from the RN7YC from Champion which has the correct heat
range and physical dimensions, then with help from NGK's New York
office, cross referenced to these numbers. At roughly $7.00 each these
are worth trying. But they still are't a stock item at the parts places
I frequent.
Does anyone else have experience with this another plug which works
well?
Mark Jones
From: karlcchen@juno.com (KARL C CHEN)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:12:48 -0700
Subject: 164S spark plugs
The local shop sold me Bosch WR5DP plugs.
I used them for more than 10,000 miles and
when I removed them a while ago, I found signs
of too hot problem. WR7DP probably would be better.
But I didn't try Bosch WR7DP, now I use Autolite AP64
for over 6000 miles, A few weeks ago I remove them
and they are still in good shape.
The Bosch plugs is already in correct gap. But Autolite
requires adjusting. I can not justify the price of
original NGK PGR6A. They never last the 60,000 miles
claimed.
Karl 92 168S, 58K miles
From: Fred Di Matteo
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:27:35 -0500
Subject: Knocking-preignition in Alfas
Do not confuse detonation with "knocking", nor preignition. In
an Alfaromeo the detonation is usually incipient and normally cannot be
heard. It is detonation that does the mechanical damage.Champion has
published some extremely clear information on these effects in an
attempt
to educate.
2. Lodge, and Magneti Marelli plugs have been manufactured for
the aftermarket now for a couple of years by Champion ( div of Cooper
Ind)
in europe, and that Fiat branded aftermarket plugs are another champion
product.
3. neither NGK nor Bosch are rebranded, tho both were also OE.
4. Lodge is still very big in UK.
Fred Di Matteo
From: "Johnston, Terence" <tjohnsto@visa.com>
Subject: 164S Plugs
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:33:58 -0700
The list price for the specified NGK plugs is ridiculously high. The
dealer price is $33 and the best price I could find at a parts place was
$18. However, thanks to a parts specialist at Grand Auto I have now
found a place that beat significantly those two prices. Monarch
Products at 1-909-672-8501 sells the NGK PFR6B at $11 a piece. Not
cheap but a lot better $33. I ordered them COD on Monday and they
arrived two days later (They are in S Cal and I am in N Cal). Now all I
have to do is figure how to get the rear three plugs in! I suspect i
will have to remove the plenum.
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 19:08:53 -0700
Subject: Re: Cheap 164S plugs
From: karlcchen@juno.com (KARL C CHEN)
How is PFR6B differ from stock PGR6A ? If they are similar
that could save a lot of money.
I have been using Autolite AP64( or APP64 which is double platinum ends )
with good result on my 92 164S and they are very cheap and you can find
them in almost all auto stores. You need to adjust gap though.
Pre-1993 164 plugs is not that hard to change. Just use
the spark plug tool included in Alfa toolbox in trunk.
The newer post-1993 164 plugs are much harder to change.
But if your not lucky the Alfa plug tool may not work
because its quality varies greatly. In that case buy the
long spark plug socket from JC Whiteny catalog. it works
great with a universal joint.
And don't expect them to last 60,000 miles either. I will
check them every 10,000 just to be sure it is still OK.
Mine at 30,000 miles is already broken.
From: bjanesi@juno.com (Bradley J. Anesi)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:34:44 EDT
Subject: <164> Nology Ignition Wires
Since there's been some talk here recently about wires, let me jump in
with a suggestion, rather than have you wait until I get around to
writing the next article.
There's a company in San Diego (www.Nology.com) which makes ignition
wires that are more than just wires - they are also an ignition upgrade,
by using an in-line capacitor (or something like that - it's late, and
I'm too lazy to look it up) in each wire. Price is more than stock
wires, but much less (and easier to install) than new wires and an
after-market ignition. They now have 164 wires off-the-shelf (or nearly
so) - other models may require you sending an old set first. My set (the
first made for the 164), has already received a positive review on
another car - will find a permanent home under my hood ...hopefully soon.
Brad
'91 164B 5-speed
From: bjanesi@juno.com (Bradley J. Anesi)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:25:12 EST
Subject: Milano Ignition Wires (Nology HotWires) -Reply
Hanknum writes...
>Anyone have any recommendations on ignition wires for an '87 Milano
Verde?
Henry- I just replaced my stock ignition wires yesterday with Nology
HotWires (www.nology.com). These wires are more than just after-market
replacement wires, they are an ignition upgrade as well. Skeptical at
first, my first drive last night indicates there is a noticeable
difference with these wires installed, especially at part-throttle where
we do most of our driving. I'm now optimistic that Nology's claim of
improved gas mileage and reduced emissions will be realized - details to
follow.
From: Pearsondan@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:02:29 EST
Subject: Magnecor Wires for 164
I had wanted to replace my wire set and looked around for what was out there.
Brad and others have been playing with Nology wires, which have some pretty
strong claims and a good reputation. However, I found that Magnecor would
provide a set for approximately $100 less than the Nology's and about what you
would pay for an OEM set. Magnecor does not make the same kind of claims as
some of the other competition wire manufacturers (check out their very solid
web site at http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/Index.htm), which actually
helped sell me on the product. They have been making competition wires for
years, have a solid reputation for EMF suppression in their wires and the red
competition wires look great on my engine (a shallow observation). Grass
Roots Motorsports has used Magnecor's in some of its project cars with good
results.
The KV-85 competition wires are made with a silicone rubber that leaves the
wires very soft, and with spark plug covers that seal well. Getting the wires
seated on the 1, 2, and 3 plugs was a real bear, but once on, they seal the
plug hole better than the OEM wires. I don't have any hard numbers on whether
my performance is better with these wires or not and really, good wires won't
add more than a couple of horses anyway, but Magnecor has a great rep for
making efficient, reliable wires. If you are looking to replace a set, I
think this is a solid way to go. I did take the 164S out for a series of
65-105 mph (that is 105-170 kmh for my metric friends) wind sprints the other
night and it really ripped, especially above 80 mph (all in 4th gear) as the
engine came into its own. Magnecor also has sets for GTV-6s and Milanos.
Good luck,
Dan Pearson
Silver Spring, MD
1991 164S
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:15:59 +1100
From: drubie@macquarie.com.au (David Rubie)
>
> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 15:56:30 +0000
> From: Paul Russo
> Subject: UK 164 Lusso Auto - Ticking relays ?
>
> Hi all,
>
> Question: If I put my 164 into 'Park' with the engine running AND THE
> HEATING ETC OFF !!! and wiggle it around, some sort of relay behind the
> speedo etc. clicks. This also happens when I accelerate away gently
> although I cannot identify why or make it repeat.
>
> It is not the air con system or heating (the motors click slightly anyway).
> I am about to buy the manual on CD-ROM but wonder if any other fellow
> digesters have had similar problems, is it just the starter lock out I wonder ?
>
Paul,
I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but on my '89 164
(sold now) the electrical system would be shut down almost completely
when the key was turned to activate the starter motor. I assume this
is done to give the starter a fighting chance of turning the motor
over without the A/C compressor and alternator stopping it.
This particular car had a slightly worn key barrel, and occasionally
would not return far enough from the start position to switch all
the electricals back on.
It drove me and my wife nuts for about 6 months. We would hop in the
car, start driving, get to the first corner and discover the indicators
wouldn't work. I had no idea what the problem was, other than stopping
and re-starting the car would fix it (did you guess I was a programmer :-)
When I discovered what was going on, and that turning the key slightly back
to the "ON" position away from start fixed it, I was sort-of amused.
Your ignition barrel may be slightly worn, or showing the first signs
of being so. Try turning the key back a little and see what happens.
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 09:26:59 -0500
From: Fred Di Matteo
Subject: 164 distributors
An annoying problem has shown up in at least two 164s that I know of.
Rough running, slow starting and then NO START. If your 164 does not
start instantly the first time or the second, stop cranking and examine
the distributor cap and rotor! It seems the rotor self-destructs and is
no longer capable of doing its job. I strongly recommend you carry a
spare cap and rotor. The replacement is quite easy when you have the
proper tools to remove the cap and rotor, 1/4 inch deep socket set is
all you'll need. Fred Di Matteo AROC Technical Advisor USA.