Stabliant-22 availabilty summary:
From: FredAlfa@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 19:12:41 -0400
Subject: Stabilant 22
This item has been mentioned before in the Digest but never the instructions
or details of how it works. I offer it now and my hopes are that it will
cure a great many electrical problems in Alfas and any other marques. This
stuff is magic and expensive but worth every penny. Fred Di Matteo
D.W. Electrochemicals Ltd.
97 Newkirk Road North, Unit 3
Richmond Hill, Ontario L4C 3G4
CANADA Phone: (905) 508-7500
Fax: (905) 508-7502
INSTRUCTIONS - STABILANT 22A
Stabilant 22 is the world's first electronic contact enhancer.
Applied to the contact points of electronic connectors, this
innovative new liquid polymer itself becomes conductive between the
mating surfaces of the contacts while staying non-conductive
between adjacent contact pairs. Stabilant 22, unlike any other contact
treatment, thus actively improves conductivity and connector reliability in
any electronic system, from mainframe computers and PCs to biomedical
electronics and avionics.
Highly sensitive low-power electronic systems suffer when connector
reliability is poor. Poor connector conductivity causes static, noise,
intermittance, erratic electrical behaviour, distortion of the signal as
well as succeptibility to electronic smog-exactly the problems that
repair and maintenance technicians spend so much of their time solving.
Most connectors ideally consist of two perfectly mating metal contacts.
But when enlarged, the connecting surfaces show great
irregularity, meaning that contact points are randomly scattered across
the contact area of the connector. These uneven contact surfaces cause
unpredictable contact resistance, which ultimately leads to system
malfunction.
A film of Stabilant 22 applied to connectors reduces or eliminates
problems related to poor conductivity. Stabilant 22 coats the mating
surfaces of the contacts and fills the gaps between the original
scattered point-contacts. There, Stabilant becomes conductive, and thus
broadens the contact area far beyond the original, substantially improving
signal integrity. At the same time, Stabilant 22 seals the connection
against dirt, grit, and environmentally-born materiab causing tarnish and
corrosion.
Stabilant 22 is essentially non-toxic, and does not break down,
evaporate, varnish, or react with any other chemical treatments previously
used on the contacts. There is no spillover of conductivity - Stabilant 22
acts as a conductor only between the mating, charged, connections.
Stabilant 22 is also easy to apply - just the dab of a finger, brush, or
swab to the contact area. Even socketed ICs can be treated vath Stabilant 22a
as it will penetrate the smallest crevice. Non-migrating, and with a very low
vapor pressure, Stabilant 22 will often outlast the useful life of the
equipment
Connectors are the most valuable part of any electronic system.
Treatment with Stabilant 22, the world's first electronic contact enhancer
will impart the reliability of a soldered joint to any electro-mechanical
connections without forming a physical bond!
From: mark m thornton <markmt@gte.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:29:30 -0800
Subject: stabilant 22
A big thank you goes out to fredalfa and others who suggested stabilant
22 and to VW who stock it. For years I've detailed connectors mainly
with spray electrical contact cleaner or corrosion preventive sprays.
But then I tried the stabilant, detailing all the connectors I could find
in the fusebox, relay blocks, ground points, engine control and antilock
brake systems on the 75 3.0. I've rarely seen more dramatic results from
routine service on the milano -
correct hazard warning lamp function is restored
the door locks work better
it starts better, and idles at the correct speed
power is improved (!)
some erroneous indications from the ARC went away
rear fog lamp function is restored
I could go on. I'm amazed. Few of the connectors were actually bad,
since I've done all this before using the usual cleaners and sprays.
The *contact improver* label on the bottle says it all.
The usual disclaimers apply.
From: mark m thornton <markmt@gte.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 14:51:29 -0800
Subject: re: Stabilant 22
Chris and John wrote about Stabilant 22. I found mine at the local VW
dealer. It is labelled ZVW 186 001. Perhaps their parts numbering
system is international. The label also shows:
D.W. Electrochemicals Ltd.
97 Newkirk Road North
Richmond Hill, Ontario, L4C 3G4
Canada
From: Carl750@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:25:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: stabilant 22 part number
In a message dated 97-02-28 14:47:12 EST, you write:
> From: richard bies <bies@infobahn.icubed.com>
> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 09:43:42 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: stabilant 22
> Can someone put-up the part number for this product?
I bought it at Car Quest as "SL-5 Contact Stabilant"
From: Megan Elora Caverly <meca@loc.gov>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:40:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Stabilant 22 competitor
With Stabilant 22 getting such uninhibited endorsement, I too decided that
I HAD to get some, so I went searching for a place that might sell it
cheaper than a VW dealer. No luck there, but I did end up finding what
looks like a worthy - and cheap - competitor. At one race prep store,
another customer had given the resident mechanic a can of something called
Deoxit 5 which he used on airplane electronics. The race mechanic
had used it up, thought it was great stuff, but couldn't find it
anywhere. He still had the empty though and reading the label, this stuff
purports to do pretty much the same thing as Stabilant 22. I wrote down the
manufacturer's info:
Caig Laboratories
16744 W. Bernardo Dr.
San Diego, CA 92127-1904
ph: 619-451-1799
fax: 619-451-2799
I also checked the Web for Caig and found a rather interesting Tech Info
Sheet that compares the various properties of several Caig Lab products vs
Stabilant 22, WD-40, silicone-based lubricants, and mineral oil-based
lubes. It can be found at http://www.caig.com/SB-SPEC.HTM
Some of the highpoints of the comparison chart according to Caig: Deoxit
will deoxidize where Stab 22 won't; Deoxit does better at
improving conductivity and reducing resistance than Stab 22; it's more
effective than Stab 22 on similar-dissimilar materials and on both moving
and stationary connections; and is available in wipes and a pen applicator
as well as in an aerosol. The most striking difference though, was price:
they list Stab 22 at $70 an ounce and Deoxit 5 at $10 an ounce.
Obviously, I have nothing to do with these guys, but I'm curious. Perhaps
some of the So. Cal digesters could check out Caig and Deoxit 5 and report
back?
From: Michael_Conrey@CANAMMANAC.COM
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:11:00 -0400
Subject: more stabilant 22
I haven't been on the digest for very long, so maybe this has been posted
before, but you can reach D.W. Electrochemicals Ltd. at the address &
number listed below. I'm not sure if they are the manufacturer or
distributor or both of Stabilant 22, but they will help you find a place
where you can buy Stabilant 22. In my case they told me to try my local
NAPA store, and gave me their part number (CE-1). I called the local NAPA
store and they had never heard of it. The local store called the regional
NAPA warehouse. They had some in stock and it will be here tomorrow
($47.95).
Date: 21 Aug 96 16:55:41 -0700
From: "Robert C Hardwick" <robert.c.hardwick@boeing.com>
Subject: 164 headlight condensation
I queried the group several months ago about the about
possible solutions to deal with water condensation in the
headlight lens. On my 164 (base model) the volume got to
fish bowl proportions. Several newsgroup members offered
commiseration, but no fixes except to buy a new lamp.
That's $250, and too straight forward to be fun. :)
So I removed the ass'y, dried it in a 150 Fahrenheit oven
for about 24hrs, applied a bead of RTV silicon to the
outside of the joining surface and reinstalled. It's been 2
months and no condensation. Yippee.
A couple of tips:
Remove the turn signal before yanking the headlight ass'y.
The turn signal clips into the headlight ass'y via clips
tucked where you can only feel them.
The opening to the headlight is baffled so that the water
vapor leaves very slowly (low fluid flow). I swished
rubbing alcohol in it first in order to displace the water
with something that evaporated more rapidly.
BTW, the ass'y mount is a lovely little aluminum casting,
definitely a cut above the norm.
Robert Hardwick, Seattle
----------------------
From: Zamani Zambri <zzambri@scudc.scu.edu>
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 23:34:17 -0800
Subject: Lights, an observation.....
The 164 has 3 different type of headlights (not 100% sure on this)
1-Euro Elma
2-Euro Projector (what brand?)
3-US Carello
The US Carello is not as bad as the US Elma for the Milano. Headlight
upgrade would only be worth the money if you go for the Euro projector.
Some say the fenders for the 168 Super and US 164s are different. I
think otherwise.
and 3 different rear lights
1-white striped blinkers and backup lights (all early model 164s)
2-red blinkers and red striped backup lights (late model US 164)
3-red striped blinkers and backup lights (late model Euro)
----------------------
From: Brad Anesi <BANESI@novell.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 07:35:22 -0800
Subject: 164 Replacement Headlights - Comsea "SuperPleasure"
To the 164 Contingent....
I'm looking into getting a set of replacement headlights, and have found a
set of Comsea dual headlights (kinda BMW-ish) from an outfit in Italy.
These headlights use a H1 AND H4 bulb, and are supposed to be plug
replaceable for the stock one-bulb unit (I specifically inquired about this,
and was told that the two lights are wired together so that the existing
wiring connector can be used without modification). My questions...
1) Do any of you have experience with these lights? 164 or otherwise?
2) Am I likely to have any power issues? What is the combined power
draw of a H1 and H4 bulbs?
3) Does the stock European headlight use a different connector than the
USA headlights? (Maybe these units are plug replaceable only for the
stock Euro headlights?)
If anyone else is interested, a pair of these goes for about 100,000 lira,
which is currently about $625 US dollars. If others are interested, maybe
I can broker a quantity discount.
-------------------------
From: eax@juno.com (Eugenios A Christodoulou)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:40:53 EST
Subject: 164 Twin Head Lamp Conversion
To Brad Anesi or any one else who might be interested.
I have a Catalog from Demon Tweeks that I picked up in Europe last Summer
It lists "MORETTE" TWIN HEAD LAMP CONVERSION
for ALFA 164 90 year on H4/H1 part no 02019014000 for 243.22 British
pounds which I think is less than the $625 that Brad found in Italy
(shipping is extra I don't even know if they ship overseas). I will send
any one a copy of the page if interested.There are pictures of various
cars but no an ALFA! Phone numbers listed on the catalog 01978 664466
fax 01978 664467
-------------------------
From: Brad Anesi <BANESI@novell.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 14:12:29 -0800
Subject: 164 Replacement Headlights
alpo4@juno.com (Alvin L. Porter) wrote...
>Anyway, are you aware of the home-market factory lights that the later
>164s came with? I believe they are two-bulb projector-type lenses.
Al, this was my first choice - unfortunately, I am told (by Jano at
AutoDelta) that the projector headlights (standard on the newer 164s),
require different fenders. The Morette/Comsea headlights do not, and I
suspect they are less expensive than the projector headlights anyway.
I'll let everyone know how this works out - Jon, I think I'll contact you
ahead of time, in case I need to make a mad dash to Boston after I melt
down my existing wiring harness .
-----------------------------
From: "Spiros Angelopoulos" <spiros@atlas.arc.nasa.gov>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:32:50 -0800
Subject: Euro headlights on 164
Hello
After doing some research I found out where to get the European Alfa's
headlights here in the US. The set costs $750 and comes with the headlight
assembly pair plus the thin metal strip spacers that install underneath each
assembly (the European 164s have thinner assemblies than those in the US).
It takes ~3 months to ship them from Italy but it's worth it as they require NO
modifications for mounting other than having to change the electrical sockets
to adapt the new assembly. The dealer that gave me the info has already done
the modification on his 164Q with no problems...
Also, if you are interested, you can get the 16" wheels that go on the European
models. They look very similar to the ones the cars were imported with, except
of a little more aggressive look. You can see pictures of the wheels on Alfa's
official web site (http://www.alfaromeo.com/def_n.htm). The cost for these is
$350 each plus a new set of (wider) tires ;-)
The European lights and wheels are ordinarily fitted on the 164 Super 24V and
the 164Q. They fit only the '94 and '95 US 164LS and 164Q.
If you need dealer info send me an e-mail and I will send you back the
telephone number (just trying to avoid inadvertent advertising...).
-----------------------------
From: nizam@live.apple.com (Nizam Zambri)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 10:04:06 -0700
Subject: 164LS (US) headlights, Syntec notes
All,
I'd like to update all of you on the subject of the new model 164's
projector headlights, being installed in place of the older Carello
headlights.
The verdict is, the new Bosch projector headlight unit fits perfectly,
right down to the mounting holes in the chasis. Everything lines up
perfectly and there are no unsightly gaps. I'll have a before and after
picture put up soon. The wiring is a little trickier, since the newer
lights use GM-style plugs which aren't as available as one might think.
Since I haven't found the GM conectors yet, I cannot say how the lights
perform. All I know is that my hunch that Alfa didn't change the
chasis/fender stampings was right. You can bolt those babies right on.
--------------------------
From: nizam@live.apple.com (Nizam Zambri)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:33:57 -0700
Subject: '91-'93 164 with projector headlights info
Hi all.
I received several questions this morning regarding my installing the
late-model 164 headlight assembly into an older 164.
So far, I've learnt a few neat things:
1. There are apparently three headlight subcontractors for the 164. The
original that came with my '94 164LS, and the numerous '91 164b, 164L and
164S's I've seen go through the APE junkyard had their lights made by
Carello. The new pair that I bought is made by Bosch and the one Brad
(bjanesi@juno.com) just got is made by Morette.
2. The Carello headlights have the traditional one connector for hi/lo
beams and another for the parking/direction indicator.
3. The Bosch headlights have one oval plug that handles the parking/hi/lo
beams, another oval plug for the direction indicator -AND- another oval
plug for a motor that adjusts the alignment of the headlight. I don't
believe any of the US 164's have an adjusting switch in the dash. The '94
and onwards Euro-spec 164's have it, and it looks like the dashboard
illumination rheostat.
4. The Morette lights, per Brad, has one connector that sounds different
from both the Bosch and the Carello headlights. It handles all
parking/hi/lo beams and the direction indicator!
5. The fenders of the 164's, from 4/91 through *at least* 1/94 are
*exactly the same*. I can safely state this because I brought my '94 LS to
APE and compared it to the (straight) fender of a 4/91 164b. Larry at APE
verified that the fenders are identical. I doubt Alfa would have changed
it after 4/94.
Now then. I will have a "before" and "after" pic posted to my homepage
once I'm done converting my 164 LS's headlight to the new Bosch projector
unit. Brad, you will be a believer :-).
The snag that I have right now is obtaining the correct oval plug that
holds the female connectors, to mate with the oval plug on the Bosch
headlight unit. I have one set, taken from a bent 164b door. Larry's
wasn't parting out good doors :-(. The other snag is, since the new unit
is slimmer from top to bottom, there is a trim plate that I have to paint,
to close the gap between the bottom of the headlight, to the bumper. I
bought these when I bought the headlights, and they were USD$55 *each*
(ow!)
As a final note, I'm here to dispense the rumour that the fenders are
different and you can't fit a late model headlight into an older model 164.
Pah. ;-) I'm talking bolt-on here, folks. No fender modifications at
all. The only big conversion is the wiring.
Keep it tuned to this channel,
------------------------
From: nizam@live.apple.com
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 22:37:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 164 w/projector lights, done!
All,
I've successfully, and uneventfully, replaced my 1994 164LS's
headlights with Euro-spec projector headlights. I have both before
and after photographs, and they are now at the photo developing store.
The new lights fit perfect, and all the bolt holes line up perfectly.
Like I mentioned in my last posting regarding "old" 164's having the
same fenders as the "new" 164's, there is only *one* fender design
across all the years.
The only modifying I had to do was splice in the new Bosch connectors
which I obtained out of a wrecked 164L door. The plastic connector
used for the power windows and doorlocks are the exact same fit for
the headlights.
I now have a pair of *mint* condition 164 lights for sale. Of course,
these are the ones that came out of the car. I'll take $180 each
(which is less than half of a brand new one). :-)
Ciao,
Nizam
--------------------
From: bjanesi@juno.com (Bradley J. Anesi)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 21:38:37 EDT
Subject: <164> Euro' Morette Twin H1/H4 Headlights
Finally got around to trying to figure out the wiring on this today - not
sure if I have a problem or not.
Background info:
1) Twin round headlights are internally wired to one connector
2) Euro setup uses 3 wires (hi-beam, low-beam, and ground) as does US
harness
3) 25A Hella relay included for hi-beams
Installation notes:
1) Hot lead for hi-beam relay wired from 40A coolant fan connection (on
fire-wall)
2) Three temporary jumper cables used to wire US connector to Euro light
connector, using a like-to-like approach - gnd to gnd, hi to hi, low to
low.
Here's what happens:
1) Low beam setting - both lights (H1 & H4) come on low
2) High beam setting - Outside light (H4) only comes on very bright (high
beam)
I was under the impression that only the H4 would come on in low beam
mode, while both would come in when the high beams were turned on. Isn't
this the way it should be, are do they do things different on the other
side of the pond? Any help or insight from our Euro readers (or U.S.,
for that matter) is appreciated.
Two final questions...
1) Any suggestions on a source for AMP connectors / pig-tails?
2) When switching from high to low beam, the relay (I presume), makes a
whining noise lasting about 1 second - is this normal?
------------------------
From: bjanesi@juno.com (Bradley J. Anesi)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:25:52 EDT
Subject: Re: <164> Euro' Morette Twin H1/H4 Headlights
Thanks for the reply David- Here's my follow-up questions...
>I have the Bosch projector headlamps in my '94 164 TS, don't know
>if there the same as the Morette type.
Similar in operation I suspect, but not exactly the same.
> They work like this....
>1st position on stalk - projector lamps comes on dim and small
>bulb in driving lamp comes on.
Do both pair of lights come on, or just the outer ones? By small bulb,
are you referring to the parking light? (which the Morette lights have,
but I've left disconnected since we don't use this over here; no wiring
in US car)
>2nd position on stalk - projector lamps comes on bright
All four, or just the two outer ones?
> pull stalk - driving lamps comes on full.
So you have three positions on your car? The "pull stalk" position on
the US cars is spring-loaded to return to the 1st position. When pulled
(and held), it gives the same result as 2nd position (Hi-beam)
-------------------------
From: David.Hanley@GBEUT02.eutech.com
Date: 25 Jun 1997 08:57:53 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: <164> Euro' Morette Twin H1/H4 Headlamps
Brad,
with my '94 car the Bosch projector lamps are just the outside ones -
the inner lamps look like standard lamps/reflectors.
The stalk has two turn positions and if you pull it towards you - you
can flash people with the driving lamps.
If I remember correctly you push it forwards and it locks, putting the
inner driving lamps on, blinding other oncoming motorists! (UK term is
Full beam).
Hope this makes sense - never thought there would be so much
difference in lights operation.
From: karlcchen@juno.com (KARL C CHEN)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:12:45 -0800
Subject: New 164 projector headlights, excellent !
I got a pair of new 164 projector headlights from Taiwan
and put them on this Sunday. They are made by Bosch and
because they are thinner, they required a lower trim under it.
I have the trim painted red like my car too. The low beam
light is so well controlled, it never blind oncoming traffic,
yet the brightness is simply awesome. Can't believe it only
has 55W. The passenger side light also goes up so you can see
something like street sign on your right side well.
This also tell you that if you try to get it, you should get
a LHD.
The dealer in Taiwan also give me all wiring connectors from their
used bins. They have done a few of this conversion before.
Because each headlight has separated high and low beam bulbs
and compartment, I think low beam should stay on when high
beam is on. But my 92 164S use single US 1157 bulb, so when
high beam is on, low beam is turned off. I must say
even in this setup, the high beam is just excellent, better
than original.
But I want to make it even better, I made a special modification,
so when high beam is on, the low beam stays on. The result is
incredible, they lights up the entire freeway. I simply use two
50V 1A silicon diodes from high beam positive(+) to both low beam
relay (+) point #86, ( gray colored wire ). 1A diode is enough
because current is only for turn on the low beam relay.
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:42:55 -0400
Subject: DRL relay(s)
From: Michael (C M) Smith
Hi
I have a Factory Manual. Section 40-9 (Electrical System)shows the DRL relays
as vaguely somewhere near the rear of the center console. The diagrams in
the Factory Manual also show the Seat Relays under the center console between
the rear seats (this was a relatively rare option allowing the two separate rear
seats to be "reclined" a few degrees individually and electrically, most cars
came with the more useful bench seat in the rear and do not have a rear console
between the rear seats), confusingly this diagram appears right over the Title
"Day-Light Relays(canada version only)". Don't be fooled. The correct (using
the term loosely) diagram is at the bottom of the page after the instructions.
Possibly different exact locations and configurations exist. The relay (one only
) on my car was mounted upside down plugged into a socket attached to the under
side of the rear of the center console. Removing only the rear ashtray would
have allowed me to access it. As it was I only had to loosen the console to
lift it up enough to see the relay and reach in and pull it. It should not be
necessary to "remove" the console, which would require removing the gearshift knob
Good luck, and remember to switch your lights on and off as required!
From: David.Hanley@GBEUT02.eutech.com
Date: 02 Jun 1997 13:01:17 +0100
Subject: <164> Fog lamps
Anybody interested in fitting (replacing) fog lamps to a base model
164, should know its dead easy to do.
This applies to all Pre-94 models and 94-> base models only.
(1) Remove the knock outs with the 3 cross head screws.
(2) Insert the new lamps using the same 3 screws.
(3) Connect the 2 pin cable that is located nearby, usually attached
to the chassis close by.
That's it.
The wiring, fusing, cabling, switch etc. is all connected and working
on all models incl. the base models which in the UK didn't come with
fog lamps.
From: Vasco Melo <vasco_melo@harvard.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:30:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Dash brake lights
>>Bernie wrote:
>Recently the "brake" and "stop" warning lights have started coming on in
>our 164. My mechanic checked all the connections. The brake lights are
>functioning properly... At first I thought it was a bubble in the brake
>fluid reservoir because it only came on in right hand curves, but now it
>comes on sometimes when the brakes are applied. Anyone else had this
>problem and found the solution (other than electrical tape over the
>warning lights!).
>
> Well, I've had this happen several times a year on my 168, and to no
>ill effect. I understand it to be a brake light failure warning, and it
>went haywire at Sebring under duress. I have found no ill effects from
>this and can only presume that it is Sofia saying "hello". I wouldn't
>worry. Check your trunk light connectors for the taillights for a secure
>fit.
I have the same problem on my 164 S. At one point one of the brake bulbs
went out and everytime I put on the left turn signal it would flash at
double speed. Apparently there is more than one bulb in there and if one
goes out it causes the dash lights to come on. Now that this problem is
fixed, the dash light still comes on once in the while; my mechanic said
that there's a switch in there that goes bad and needs replacing.
Good luck.
Vasco.
Owner:
1991 Alfa Romeo 164 S
(Daily driver - 99K)
--------------------
From: John Burrows <JohnB@visio.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:50:20 -0700
Subject: 164 dash brake lights
It's the brake light switch. I've been thru 3 of them (luckily all
under warranty).
---------------------
From: "Steve Margolis" <margolis@ECONBUS1.ECON.NCSU.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:13:14 EST5EDT
Subject: Re: 164 brake lights and sticking clutch
I too had both the brake and stop warning lights showing on my 164
and was puzzled. I checked the brake lights several times, or thought
I had, then checked lots of other things, then remembered to look at
the center high-mounted brake light. It was out.
-----------------------
From: Gruesbeck Enterprises <dgruesbeck@voyager.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:01:00 -0400
Subject: 164 brake warning light
>Bernie wrote:
>Recently the "brake" and "stop" warning lights have started coming on in
>our 164. My mechanic checked all the connections. The brake lights are
>functioning properly... At first I thought it was a bubble in the brake
>fluid reservoir because it only came on in right hand curves, but now it
>comes on sometimes when the brakes are applied. Anyone else had this
>problem and found the solution (other than electrical tape over the
>warning lights!).
I had a similar problem with my car when I first bought it. The cure
for me was to put the correct bulb in the brake light. I thought that
all were the same but was told that there is a difference and that the
correct bulb was the 2057 not the 1157 I was trying-something I learned
in a truck stop. I was driving the thing home from Minnesota and had
been pulled over at least once and so stopped at a truck stop and bought
the 1157. Still the same problem so the next one had a choice of either
the 2057 or 1157. Was told by attendant that newer cars needed the 2057.
Problem solved. May be not your problem but a cheap thing to check on.
------------------------
From: bjanesi@juno.com (Bradley J. Anesi)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:52:07 EDT
Subject: 164 "Brake" and "Stop" Idiot Lights - Possible answer
The Question:
On an intermittent basis (about 10% of the time), my "brake" and "stop"
idiot lights will go on (always both) as I release the brake pedal -
they'll stay on until I fully release the pedal and disengage the brake light
switch, I believe. Everthing works fine, brake fluid is fresh, pads are
70% - I'm pretty sure it's just a false indication. Any ideas? I know
other 164 owners with the same/similar problem.
The Answer:
What is happening is the brake light switch has a check circuit in it. If
the switch hesitates to change positions it thinks you have an open circuit
it trips the system. The other possible problem is when the warning light is
on , have someone look at all the brake light bulbs to be sure they are all
on. The contacts melt on the cheap bulbs and raises the resistance in the
circuit causing the warning light to come on. If they are melted, you
should replace the sockets with ones that have copper contacts. This
will prevent this condition from ever reoccuring again.
The 3rd brake light must have the correct wattage or you will get also
get a warning light .
1st-Replace the brake light switch and your warning light will go away
after checking the above concerns.
-------------------------
From: "B. D. & Petei Zelazny" <unltd-ltd@brooksdata.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 01:02:23 -0500
Subject: Those pesky 164 brake warning lights...
WARNING! WARNING! *THIS IS A TECH ANSWER TO MY OWN QUESTION* WARNING!
WARNING!
A very good friend of mine who happens to be an *excellent* Alfa Romeo
mechanic called me last night. I took the opportunity to ask him about
my pesky brake warning light problem.
After a lengthy description of what was happening he told me the warning
lights that are coming on indicate the following:
"Brake" warning light (simply a rectangle with the word "brake" in it) -
this light will illuminate when *any* brake related problem occurs and
the other associated warning light will also illuminate thus indicating
the source of the brake related fault (very clever!)
"Stop" warning light (this symbol is a circle with a dashed or broken
line on either side of the outside of the circle) - this is the pad wear
indicator light indicating (if operating correctly) that the brake pads
are coming due for a change.
He also told me that the quality of the brake pad wear sensors is rather
poor and they tend to fail causing them to produce a false indication of
brake pad wear (especially while cornering!) when in fact the pads have
plenty of life left on them!
One way to confirm this is the actual "fault" is to unhook the connector
leading from the brake pad to the connector on the wire that runs into
the passenger compartment. Insert a jump wire of known good quality in
the place of the sensor wire. If this eliminates the warning lights
illuminating you either have a) excessively worn brake pads or b) a
faulty sensor (BTW - there are only two pads with sensors, one on the
right front and the other on the left rear wheels or vise versa - memory
fails at this late hour! #:-@). You should be able to visually confirm
if the pads are actually worn out.
All the usual disclaimers apply...
Once again, many thanks to all who submitted possible causes to the
pesky warning lights.
From: Skip Testut <TESTUT@ithaca.edu>
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 07:42:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: 164 turn signal problem
A couple of A-Ds ago, I wrote that:
"My 1991 164 Base model has developed an interesting quirk. When I step
on the brake pedal the warning lights for "stop" and "brake" light up
despite the fact that the brake pads (and sensors) are fine AND ALL 3 BRAKE
LIGHTS (US Model) also work. This wouldn't bother me except that when
I signal for a left turn the duty cycle is considerably shorter than for
a right turn (i.e., the left lights blink more rapidly than the right).
As is the case with the brake lights, all turn signals on the left side
are working, just that they blink much faster. Any suggestions???"
Thanks to Fred DiMatteo for correctly suggesting a burned out filament in
the left rear turn signal as ONE OF THE PROBLEMS. It turns out that a bad
connection (corrosion?) in the rear brake light control unit (in the
right hand side of the dash) was also causing some intermittent problems as
well.
From: "Steven Mindy" <AMORY1@prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:04:40 -0500
Subject: 164 ABS
Recently, I noticed that the ABS was not functioning on my 91 164L. I had
purchased the car in October, and the Anti-Lock light had never
illuminated. When I learned that I did not have ABS, I took it to the
dealer even though it was no longer under the used car warranty, hoping
that they would take care of it as it could be a safety issue. They were
baffled when I told them, as this is the first 164 they have ever had with
an ABS problem (and this car belonged to the owner of the dealer).
Anyway, I figured that it could not be anything serious. The brakes were
just fine, and the other brake related lights only illuminated upon power
up. Thankfully, I was right. The burned out Anti-Lock bulb on the
dashboard caused the ABS to fail (we all had a good laugh followed by a
sigh of relief). The ABS works...just in time for several additional
inches of slush and ice...
Perhaps some people are already aware of this, but for those who are not, I
figured it might prevent an ulcer or two (ABS is not checking account
friendly, after all).
The moral of the story is "MAKE SURE YOUR ANTI-LOCK BULB IS NOT BURNED
OUT."
From: Tonywoodtw <Tonywoodtw@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 14:07:37 EST
Subject: Re: Bill's 164 questions
5] Anyone found a solution to the brake warning lights [dash] coming on
for no reason other than the car talking to you?
Take the fluid reservoir cap off, unplug, and dismantle the level sensor. It
is easy to dismantle. Clean the contacts and make sure it all works smoothly
when you reassemble. I tested it with an ohm-meter before putting it all
back. It's been OK for the 20K miles since.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:31:23 -0400
From: bjanesi@juno.com
Subject: 164 Backup Light Switch -Reply
"Steven Mindy" writes...
>Does anyone have any experience changing the backup lights switch on the
>transmission housing of a manual 164? Although this looks pretty easy
>(screw out old one, screw in new one), I'm afraid I may be missing
something.
This is one of those jobs that actually is as easy as it looks. All that
is needed is a deep socket or box wrench (24mm, if I remember correctly).
When my backup lights went away I didn't even bother testing the switch
- I just replaced it and in 5 minutes I had backup lights again. BTW,
this is also the hole I use to refill the tranny fluid - much, much
easier than getting access to that dipstick buried way back there.
Still here, but been busy,
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 96 15:01:48 -0500
From: Wright Family <wwright@gs.net>
Subject: Simple Replacement for 164 Power Antenna
Thanks to Tom Zat I discovered that there is a simple and inexpensive =
replacement for the 164 power antenna. Radio Shack sells an inexpensive =
replacement ($40) Cat. #12-1330A. It is almost identical the original =
requiring very minor modifications. It certainly beats $135 for a new =
one from Alfa or $60-90 for a used one.
Wayne Wright - New Orleans
'91 164S
-----------------------
From: Wright Family <wwright@gs.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:22:37 -0600
Subject: Re: 164 Power Antenna
Dave Hillman asked about the modifications necessary to install the
Radio Shack power antenna on a 164. The bottom bracket and power
connector are virtually identical to the factory antenna. Just bolt it
in, plug it up, and slip on the drain hose The rubber grommet at the
top - where it goes through the upper fender - must be trimmed a bit and
sealer applied to keep the water out. I used a flexible body caulk.
Six months later it is still working fine.
However, if the mechanism is still working on yours, I wonder if it just
needs to be cleaned and lubricated, and/or, if the mast needs to be
straightened? I also understand that it is possible to get a factory
replacement mast at a fairly reasonable price. That might do the trick.
Wayne Wright - '91 164S - New Orleans
-----------------------
From: "Robert E. Woods" <WOOROB@email.briggs.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 10:01:28 -0600
Subject: Australian inquiry about 164 antenna mast
Tony Romeo of Australia asked Bill Harkell about locating a mast for his
164's electric antenna.
I just replaced mine after it broke following a car wash (froze up in the
cold). There is no need to replace the entire electric antenna assembly.
The mast is available separately, from Alfa Romeo. Part number is
608.97218; list price is $20.95. I ordered mine from Rosanova Alfa in
Maryland, telephone 301-779-6616, although I'm sure the part is available
from any other Alfa dealer.
Installation is simple: remove the retaining nut that encircles the mast,
then pull the old mast out. With ignition on, turn radio on. Thread plastic
"tail" of the mast into the hole until it catches (gear teeth face towards
front of car). Have a helper turn radio off, while you carefully guide
upper part of mast into hole. When the radio is turned off, the antenna
motor is engaged and will pull the plastic "tail" of the mast into the hole.
You must be careful to guide the mast while the motor is engaged.
Replace the retaining nut, and job is done.
By the way, the mast looks to me to be identical to a Harada mast, except
the Harada version is chrome while Alfa's is black. And the Alfa part
was $4 cheaper than a Harada at a local auto parts store!
Bob Woods
St. Paul, Minnesota
'91 164 (with newly installed electric antenna mast)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 07:46:09 -0600
From: "Mark W. Lachniet" <mwl@frii.com>
Subject: 164 Antenna
You might want to update the
tech note on the antenna replacement. The part number for the
replacement mast from Alfa has been discontinued, they will only sell
the complete power antenna. I contacted 9 Alfa dealers and was unable
to find 1 replacement mast in stock. The part number is correct, nobody
stocks it. 2 of the dealers (Rosanova and Prestige) used to stock it
and they sold well, but they no longer have any and of course can't
order more.
I will be going to the local car audio store to replace the entire
assembly, so I will be able to replace the mast when I forget to put it
down in a car wash (its bound to happen again).
From: CinderOgle@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 23:41:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re:164 antenna mast--164 cooling fan 40 amp fuse
164 antenna is the same as used by Pontiac and Chrysler ,take the
mast in and match it up If I find my part numbers I will put them on the
digest .
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:45:26 EST
From: VLADDS@aol.com
Subject: Re:164 aerial
Hi Jonathan
Your 164Q as all 164 EU models has the antenna integrated with the rear window
defogger. The whole setup is connected to an electronic control unit located
in the upper trunk, just underneath the third brake light (or close to that
area).
I figure the stuff you mention might mean that that ECU isn't doing to well or
some connection...
Regards,
Vlad
'91 164L
Long Island
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:41:25 -0000
From: "Rodda, Simon, RODDASW" <simon.rodda@bt.com>
Subject: RE: 164 aerial
There was a recall (or whatever they call it) on 164's for bad
demister relays. My v6 lusso had it done.
The explanation does sound like the relay was at fault.
Simon
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:36:18 -0000
From: Jonathan Wolff <jon@argonaut.com>
Subject: My dodgy antenna
Hi all,
I'v been meaning to update you all about my dodgy antenna for a week,
but didn't get around to it.
A quick recap. I have a 164 with the radio antenna built into the rear
window demister. There's a little (actually not so little now I've seen
it) box which somehow extracts the RF from the demister circuit without
zapping your radio. I recently noticed that radio reception was worse
than normal, and that turning the demisdter on obliterated reception on
all but the strongest stations.
Anyway, I stripped out the rear seats and the parcel shelf and had a
fiddle around. By moving one of the connectors to the demister I
managed to get a significant improvement in the reception, and when
turning the demister I just got a couple of brief bursts of hiss and
possibly a slightly degraded signal. Unfortunately by the time I had
screwed the rear shelf back in and refitted everything it was back to
its old tricks.
My multimeter seems to have gone up the Swanee, so I couldn't track down
the problem any further but I suspect either a bad joint where the
little flat wire is soldered onto the rear screen. Alternatively that
wire has a crack in it. Interestingly this is bad enough to wreck the
radio reception, but not enough to stop the demister from working. I'll
let you know what happens when I find time to go at it a second time.
This procedure applies to pre-'94 164s only. With '94 and after
the Morelli analyser must be used to read and reset codes.
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 11:57:23 +0000
From: "Chen, Karl" <karl@advansys.com>
Subject: Air bag error code reset
About reset Air bag light on 164 ( similar in spider ? ):
Here is how I reset the air big error code 35 two weeks
ago which caused by turn on ignition after disconnecting
air bag control unit connector.
How to display error code:
ground B6 wire, then the error code will be shown
on the airbag blinking light. the error is displayed
three times after it display code 12 three times.
How to reset:
After found out what error is and correct the error.
1. start display error code procedure.
2. when it is blinking code 12, disconnect the ground
wire for three seconds. Don't start too soon and
don't wait too long either.
3. reconnect ground wire for three seconds.
4. disconnect ground wire, turn off ignition key.
How to check reset is successful:
1. turn on ignition key again.
2. if air bag light start blinking immediately
you have not reset the code or there are more than
one error. repeat display error code again
and correct the error before resetting it.
The most difficult part:
Were is the air bag control unit connector ?
And which wire is the B6 ?
Remove the front passenger left side panel, You have to
remove two screws secured the center console first.
Just pull back the central console after remove
two screws.
The air bag control unit connector is located at
inner most of left side. That is if you sit
in passenger's seat you, it is right above and
to the left of your left foot. It is a big bright
orange color connector with wires divided into
three group A, B, C.
-----------
1 2 3 4 5 6 -> group C
-----------
5 6 7 8 -> group B, B6 is black-blue color wire.
1 2 3 4
-------
1 2 3 4 -> group A
As I am now in my office, the above information is coming
from my head. The connector group A maybe not be four wires.
How to ground B6 wire ?
Use what ever method you like. I cut the wire and soldered
a jump wire so I can do it as many times as I want
without even open the panel .
Following are extraction from previous digest:
Code Malfunction
14 Forward LH Sensor grounded the chassis
15 Open circuit on forward LH sensor
16 Failure to forward LH sensor
24 Forward RH sensor grounded to chassis.
25 Open circuit on forward RH sensor
26 Failure to forward RH sensor
31 Current leakage to battery
32 Current shorted to battery voltage
33 Current leakage to ground
34 Current shorted to ground
35 Open circuit
36 Faulty squib
41 Short to ground/battery-warning lamp
42 Failure of AIRBAG warning lamp
51 Faulty diagnostic unit
52 Firing sequence confirmation set
54 Sqib current has flowed
Karl 92 164S
---------------------
From: Colin Verrilli <verrilli@raleigh.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 08:12:17 -0500
Subject: Re: 164 Battery/Air Bag, etc.
Brad Anesi <BANESI@novell.com> writes:
> Some input on the 164 Battery/Air Bag issue - keep in mind this applies to
> the '91 - '93 164, but I have trouble believing it is much different on the
> later cars - I could be wrong however.
>
I confirmed with Don Black and 2 Alfa Dealers that the '94 and later 164s
can not have their airbag light reset without the special diagnostic
tool. These cars have a different airbag system than the earlier cars.
If any has any experience that proves this wrong, I'd like to know.
----------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:35:17 -0800
To: alfa-digest@mailgate.wizvax.net
From: karl.doll@sanjose.vlsi.com (Karl Doll)
Subject: 164LS (24v) timing belt, etc
I just had my 20K mile service done at the local dealer, and learned a few
things that should be of interest to 164LS (24v) owners. I stopped in in
mid-afternoon and was the only customer there. The Service Manager (GTV-6
owner) was not too busy and I enjoyed chatting and asked a laundry list of
questions that have come up recently. I also got to check out a Maserati
Bora and a Ferrari Daytona that was in for a VERY EXPENSIVE tune-up and
valve adjustment. Very informative and helpful:
(1) He said that a shade tree mechanic can change the battery without
worrying about the airbag light being triggered.
(2) They use standard Bosch diagnostic equipment for the FI system. For the
climate control, airbag, and maybe the ABS (not sure what the third system
he mentioned was), he has a Marelli tester that is a hand-held device with
an LCD. It comes with various plug-in modules for each of the car's systems
being checked. (This is what he simply called a "laptop" computer when I
asked last year when he was in a hurry. This time he showed it to me!). It
looks expensive and not many independent mechanics will have one. (I see
this as a concern for long-term support if the dealers start disappearing.)
------------------------
From: FERDINANDO DI MATTEO <fredalfa@sprintmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:39:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Air Bag Light
Subject: Spider Air Bag Codes
Note: This procedure applies to 91-93 164s
When you pull the 4 connector test connector from under the square hole
behind the passenfer's seat, you will see the connector is marked ABCD,
A being the LT Blue/black, B being the Black, C being the Green/White, D
being
Pink.
1. Since the connectors are the round female type, you'll need to
fashion a short jumper wire to go between the A & B terminals. 3. Turn
on the ignition key. 4. Observe the AIRBAG warning light; it will
flash once, followed by a short pause, then flash twice. This
represents code 12, which is an indication that the trouble shooting
procedure is "running". Code 12 will be repeated 3 times. (Example:
12-12-12) 5. If fault codes are stored, they will follow the code 12
sequence and the>AIRBAG warning light will flash a 2-digit fault code 3
times for each fault indication stored in the memory. (Example:
26-26-26) 6. When the fault>memory is empty, the AIRBAG warning light
wil again flash 12-12-12 to indicate all of the stored fault codes have
been displayrd. (Example for one code: 12-12-12-26-26-26-12-12-12)
(Example for two codes:
12-12-12-25-25-25-26-26-26-12-12-12)
TO CLEAR FAULT CODES AFTER REPAIR 1. Carry out the procedure outlined
above to view all stored fault codes. 2. When the fault memory is empty,
and the AIRBAG warning light is flashing 12-12-12 again (indicating "end
of codes") disconnect the jumper wire at the test connector for EXACTLY
3 seconds. 3.
Re-connect the jumper wire at the test connector for EXACTLY 3 seconds.
4. Remove the jumper wire from the test connector, and quicklt turn of
the ignition key. 5. Wait 10 seconds, then turn on the ignition key to
allow
the AIRBAG ECU to test the system. If there are no faults present, the
AIRBAG warning light will come on with the key, then go off after 5 to 8
seconds, then remain off. If there are still faults present in the
system, the AIRBAG warning light will come on with the key, go off after
5-8 seconds, then begin flashing again. If the AIRBAG warning light
begins to lash immediately after turning on the ignition key, the
previous fault codes HAVE NOT BEEN CLEARED> 6. If the AIRBAG warning
light flashes again indicating that there are one or more faults present
in the system, extract the fault code(s), repair the fault(s), and clear
the fault memory again.
YOU ARE REMINDED THAT ALL AIRBAG DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURES OUTLINED IN THIS
BULLETIN AND IN THE WORKSHOP MANUAL SHOULD BE FOLLOWED EXACTLY AS STATED
TO PREVENT THE POSSIBILITY OF ACCIDENTAL AIRBAG DEPLOYMENT.
Code Malfunction
14 Forward LH Sensor grounded the chassis
15 Open circuit on forward LH sensor
16 Failure to forward LH sensor
24 Forward RH sensor grounded to chassis.
25 Open circuit on forward RH sensor
26 Failure to forward RH sensor
31 Current leakage to battery
32 Current shorted to battery voltage
33 Current leakage to ground
34 Current shorted to ground
35 Open circuit
36 Faulty squib
41 Short to ground/battery-warning lamp
42 Failure of AIRBAG warning lamp
51 Faulty diagnostic unit
52 Firing sequence confirmation set
54 Squib current has flowed
That is all I have for AIRBAG faults and procedures. Do not ask me what
a squib is or some of the other nomenclature. The same test procedure
goes for 164s too. You'd have a fit trying to find
the test connector so I'll be kind and tell you where to find it in
164s. On the passenger side, below the glove box and behind the carpet
up high.
If there are any faults, there almost is never a problem with a
component, loose, dirty or corroded conections are to blame. This is an
ideal set of circumstances to use Stabilant 22, the miracle remedy on
all contacts
From: bjanesi@juno.com (Bradley J. Anesi)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:30:41 EST
Subject: Air Bag sensors & Tamper-resistant Torx
Brad Howes <bhowes@cssun3.corp.mot.com> writes...
>What tool is needed to remove the sensors? It looks like a large torx
>with a hole. Where did you locate one?
You can buy these from Snap-on in socket form ...and use them once. Or
(this is what I did), you can use a pair of Vise-grips to remove the
screws and replace them with your favorite (6mm, I believe) screw. A
black anodized allen-head worked fine for me.
From: D Flynn <redwine@suba.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 08:59:32 -0800
Subject: Re: 164 Radio
The 1991 Alfas (Spider and 164) both had Clarion radios, and expensive
ones at that: United Audio Center blew mine, and ARDONA determined that
they had destroyed a factory radio worth nearly $800!
-------------------------
From: JLEEALFA@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 07:13:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 164 oil pressure [ and radio ]
In response to Joseph Bender-Zanoni questions on 164s.
I too replaced the factory radio with an Alpine unit. A couple of pieces of
aluminum sheet epoxied and pop riveted to a standard Chrysler Infiniti radio
adapter and 4 small allen head bolts allowed the radio to be installed just
like the factory unit. It was more work, but there is satisfaction in a job
done right.
Jim Crisler
-------------------------
From: JKirshtein@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:16:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: radio
Okay Folks,
Enough guess babble on the 91-93 164 radio. One subscriber was correct, it
is indeed a Jesus Chrysler radio, much like the one found in any upscale
k-car product. The wiring is the same, replete with plugs which cna be tied
into any other radio when one buys the correct Metra harness from any car
radio store. Second, the mounting of the radio in the car is not standard
Chrysler. It is a strange mixture of a screw in the right side of radio, a
wedge on the left, and finally a huge aluminum l-bracket at the rear, not you
typical mounting ears of a Chrysler radio.
-------------------------
From: Joseph Bender-Zanoni <JBENDER-ZANONI@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:55:00 +0000
Subject: Re: CD Player for 164
There seems to be some interest in radio replacement in 164's so I'll
forward my reply to John Justus. The harness gives all the pin outs to the
radio connector, including the power antenna for amplifiers and changers as
requested in another post. The dash kit gives a start at a factory look CD
player with additional fabrication.
>Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 21:13:28
>To: JALFAjr@aol.com
>From: Joseph Bender-Zanoni <JBENDER-ZANONI@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Re: CD Player for 164
>
>At 05:48 AM 1/7/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>Have been wanting to do this for some time. Was aware that this was Chrysler
>>product, as looks exactly like the AM/FM cassette in my brothers Caravan,
>>except for the Alfa logo.
>>
>>Could you send me part numbers and places etc? I would greatly appreciate
>>it.
>These parts are almost generic and available from Radio Shack but my
favorite source is called Parts Express 1-800-338-0531 and from them a dash
kit # 265-701 is $6.95 and the car harness # 265-621 is $7.50. THey are a
good source for all manner of electonic audio parts. The dash kit only gives
you a face plate and you will have to fabricate the support sysstem as
alfa's is non-standard. You will love the worlds strongest radio bracket as
supplied from alfa. The disassembly of the center dash requires pulling back
the center console (screws at rear ashtray) and undoing a side trim piece
which gives access to another screw etc. I view this as a pretty tough cd
install. If you conned some car audio dealer into a free install deal with a
cd player purchase you might make out as it might be a solid four hours
work. Also consider speaker upgrades. All commercial type speakers are an
unmitigated rippoff. I don't know how technical you are on this but you want
a speaker with a fairly large magnet structure and a qts of .6 to 1.
Speakers are charecterized by Thiel-Small parameters of which qts is one.
For free air (no enclosure), the range given is ideal. Parts express has
some very reasonable one way speakers (no tweeters) from Onkyo about $15
each. Another great source is Madisound in Madison, Wisconson.
From: leif@acm.org (Leif Samuelsson)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:52:28 -0700
Subject: Re: Sunday mechanic destroyed 164 Radio.
I installed a new Pioneer DEH-P85DHR radio in my '93 164L just two
weeks ago. It fit perfectly, but the installation was a little
trickier than I had expected.
This radio is the same size as the original US Alfa radio (actually
slightly less deep), because it is made to fit Chrysler/GM cars. You
can find the specs on Pioneer's web site at www.pioneerelectronics.com,
but basically it has an RDS tuner, CD player, 4x35 watts, subwoofer
output, controls CD changer with up to 50 discs, and a built-in car
alarm system which can be connected to doors etc. Pioneer also has two
lower-end models with the same dimensions.
The list price in the US is $530, Crutchfield was asking $440, and I
bought it from OneCall in Spokane, Washington (www.onecall.com) for
$370.
To access the radio, you must slide back the center console and remove
the carpeting on the left side of the console. There are screws in the
back holding the radio. I didn't bother screwing in the new radio
because I feel it is held snugly enough by the console frame.
I think I could have made it easier on myself with the wiring however.
I remember hearing some time back that the 164 uses standard Chrysler
connectors, but they turned out to be quite different than the one on
the radio. So I snipped off the car's connectors and spent some time
identifying the wires and put plugs on them. Later I discovered on
Pioneer's web site that they have an adaptor for Chrysler (RD-CH84).
The installation guide that came with the radio did not mention any of
this.
Overall, I am happy with the radio. It looks good (it's gray, but it
blends pretty well with the black console) and it sounds decent with the
stock speakers.
Note that I have no affiliations with Pioneer or OneCall, I'm just a
customer.
/Leif
'93 164L
From: RBoniface@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 04:56:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 164 stereo upgrade
I don't normally get into discussions about car stereos but I've made an
upgrade to my 164 which some of you may find useful.
The OEM Chrysler "joystick" unit which was supplied on U.S. spec 164s
is basically junk in my opinion. My first unit played tapes so fast it
sounded
as if the artist had been inhaling helium. It also refused to eject tapes on
occassion and one day finally locked up for good. Under warranty I got a
rebuilt unit that seemed to work fairly well. For about two months. It,
too,
began to play Chipmunk Punk and apply a death grip on the cassette just as
its recently departed relative had. Now what?
Well, I work for Chrysler and some good fortune soon came my way. The
stereo lab announced that it was looking for some employees to use their cars
as test beds for the '97 model year premium stereo/cassette program. I soon
found out that the 164 stereo wiring harness is a Chrysler bit and that the
stereo
was a direct bolt-in replacement. The faceplate was even the exact same
dimensions as the OEM unit. I had to trim two plastic screw tabs but
otherwise
the installation couldn't have been more correct looking. The sound is
fantastic.
Those of you with similar problems might look into finding a used high end
Chrysler
unit and do the same. Just double check the number of prongs on the new
stereo jack to ensure that it is the same.
Bob Boniface
84 GTV6 (Pretty Hate Machine)
91 164L
From: JALFAjr@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:30:07 EST
Subject: 164 Radio Installation S and Q but not Q & A but possibly S&M
Access to the radio is by removing the passenger side panel trim, which
according to the manual and a visual inspection of the S seems to indicate
that there are two screws, one on the left side of the foot well, and one at
the base of the seat.
I guess I should have been a little more specific on my question on the 164Q
CD question.
I have the factory installed AM/FM/Cassette and the 12 disc CD changer mounted
in the trunk. When you are listening to the radio and turn the car off and
leave the switch in the ignition, the radio still plays. When you are
listening to CD's and turn the car off, the CD player stops.
There are six wires that go to the back of the head unit in the dash.
Yellow - 12V all the time, probably keeps clock and station memory going
Black - ground
Red - 12V when car ignition is on, CD or radio, 12V when ignition is off, key
in and radio on but 0V when ignition off and key in and CD was playing
Orange - 12V when lights are on (wired this to the red wire, as it is hard to
see the controls when not in bright sun)
Blue - 12V when radio is on (key on or off and in switch) and 0V when CD on.
(Controls power antenna)
Blue/White - 12V when CD is playing with key on, 0V when key off and still in
or when radio playing. (this gives power to the CD changer.)
I spent a couple of hours on Saturday wiring the head unit lights on when
operating and trying to get the CD to play when the key was off but still in
the ignition. Succeeded with the lights, but not the CD. Appears to be how
the head unit was designed, and my only options appear to be to have the CD
active as is or all the time.
I was hoping someone else had the problem solved. It does not appear to be a
straight forward change, as the red wire, which is hot when the radio works,
comes from a plug that goes into some kind of black box under the passenger
seat, so there is some type of control of the power to this wire external to
the head unit, but controlled by the head unit as to which type of input is
selected, radio or CD. And since pulling the key out of the ignition shuts
down the radio and lowers the power antenna.
From: Berlina71@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:28:36 EST
Subject: RE: 164 CD Player Question
The antenna is used to signal the ignition timer relay when the radio is on.
On 164 LS or Quadrifoglio with the Alfa-Fujitsu radio, only the tuner
activates the antenna. This is why only the tuner operates with the key
removed.
To operate the CD player and tape is just a matter of changing the radio to
turn on the antenna when any function of the radio is used. To do this,
disconnenct the trip wire from the radio that signals the antenna to go up
and connect it to the wire that signals the power amp to turn on. (Sorry, I did
this a long time ago so you'll have to find the wire colors.)
Now the antenna will come on with the CD and tape player, enabling you to
remove the key and listen to the radio until you turn it off, or after
fifteen minutes elapse.
From: RBoniface <RBoniface@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 23:19:30 EDT
Subject: Re: 164 radio replacement
Ric Salinas asked if another Chrysler stereo would work in the 164. I did
exactly that with my 164. I work at Chrysler and was able to obtain a
prototype 1997 stereo cassette a couple of years ago. The stereo jack
hooked up perfectly and the faceplate was exactly the same dimension
as the OEM unit. I can't say for certain that a Grand Cherokee Infinity
will fit in the opening but I'm pretty sure the pre 1998 premium Chrysler
units have common faceplate dimensions. I would suggest you measure the
faceplate of the transplant unit just to be certain. Mine is a midlevel
unit option-wise but it is far superior to the OEM joystick one.
From: "Rich Lasner" <rlasner@modulusguitars.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Replacement in 164
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:43:32 -0700
G. Emerson asked what radio/CD player fits cleanly in the 164. I installed a
pioneer DEH-45H in my 92 164S with very minor hassle. This receiver is
listed by Crutchfield as an exact replacement for GM and Chrysler cars with
oversized radios, and does not show up on their computer as a match for a
164. The color is virtually identical to the dash assembly and completely
fills the space. Crutchfield has a direct replacement wiring harness for the
164 to this radio. There are two higher models as well. Watch out for a
couple of things if you do the install: 1) You have to lose the metal "L"
bracket that holds the original radio in place, but the console holds the
radio in just fine. 2) The bolts holding the original radio in place are at
the rear of the "L" bracket in a position that takes some patience to get
at. 3) Removing and replacing the driver's side carpeted tunnel trim piece
(which you must do to access the radio mounting bolts) is a major pain in
the butt. Watch for a short metal "tongue" bolted under the driver's seat
rail on the side closest to the center console that holds the back edge of
the carpeted trim piece in place. If you miss it, you'll struggle for hours
until you finally find it. Good luck.
Rich Lasner
92 164S
Subject: Thanks to all on 164 radio replacement info
Date: Wed, 27 May 98 10:44:59 +0100
From: <gre1@worldnet.att.net>
Thanks to all who resonded to my question on radio replacement options
for my 91 164L. The Pioneer Chrysler/GM direct replacement unit is a
perfect fit. No modifications, factory connectors and the color is
almost the same as the 164 dash. This was the easiest installation I
have ever done, less than 1 hour. The only thing I miss about the old
radio is the neat Alfa logo.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:05:31 -0500
From: "William E. Bean"
Subject: 164 DIN Stereo
Contact Jerry Elliott at Scosche Industries (800) 621-3695 x225. Scosche
provide many after market adapter (including kits used by Crutchfield) kits
for stereos and speakers.
Bill Bean
84 GTV-6
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:24:59 -0700
From: Joel Hailey
Subject: 164 stereo installation
Someone posted a query regarding installing a DIN chassis radio in a 164
recently. I typed up this whole procedure when the thread was more
timely-as I was proofing what I had written, the power blinked (there
was a snow storm going on) and lost what I had written. Disgusted, I
turned the computer off.
I hope that the interest is still there, and will proceed accordingly.
I just recently made the exact same installation in my '91 L. You must
remove the console from the car, as you will need access from the rear.
Once the console and original radio are out, here's how to do it :
You'll need two parts from the car stereo store: a Chrysler/DIN mounting
plate with all of its various and sundry mounting tabs, and a
Chrysler/DIN face plate. This last item has the OD of the Chrysler/164
radio, and a hole in the middle that is DIN sized. It is textured on the
outside to match the dash of a modern automobile, has no mounting tabs,
and is about 2 mm thick.
Remove all of the "break-off" tabs from the Chrysler/DIN mounting plate
except for the ones on the sides. Trim the right tab to about half its
original thickness. Now, turn the mounting plate around so it's facing
the wrong way, and insert the trimmed tab into the vertical slot on the
right side of the radio opening in the console. On the left side, drill
2 1/8" holes through tab and console, and secure with pop rivets.
Now, take your face plate and lightly file a LITTLE material off of the
lower right corner so that it matches the curvature of the console. Lay
the face plate over the backwards mounting plate, using a little bit of
silicone or hot glue in between to prevent any possibility of rattles.
Slide the DIN mounting shell through the face plate and mounting plate,
bend the tabs to secure, and viola, your new stereo has a snug happy
home. I was even able to modify the hunky aluminum mounting bracket on
the back of the original radio to support the back of my new Sony. The
results are perfect-the installation looks absolutely factory.
For anyone who has made it this far and cares, here is what the rest of
the installation entailed. I installed 3 amps and a crossover under the
front seats, installed a tightly sealed, non ducted box in the trunk
with two 10" Kicker subs, ran 14 gauge cable to the subs and 16 gauge to
the four factory speakers. All components were centrally grounded to one
of the factory ground points under the console. I ran an 8 gauge cable
from the battery to provide a central power point under the console,
which goes through a 40 amp fusible link robbed from under the hood of a
164 parts car. (Centralized power and ground are essential in a
component system to ensure freedom from alternator and ignition
interference). All connections were soldered and shrink wrapped. This
entire madness took 20 hours!
The results are phenomenal. Tight clean bass, silky mids, brilliant
highs, even with the factory speakers. The 164 is now cross country
capable.
BTW, most of you don't know; my other passion in life (and sometimes
occupation) is that of a theatrical sound designer-hence this ridiculous
quest for quality audio!
Cheers,
Joel
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:03:05 EST
From: MAXLTV@aol.com
Subject: Re: 164 Radio
In a message dated 3/17/99 6:05:30 PM EST, owner-alfa-digest@digest.net
writes:
There is some great advice on radios on the 164 web page that mimics the shop
manual (I forget the URL-go to the main page and access it)
If you have the CarDisc CD, the stepper motor instruction video is a great
way to learn how to replace the radio!! Basically, you have to remove the two
screws under the REAR ashtray on the console, remove the screws that hold the
console alongside the seats, lift the console, move it back and hang it on the
shifter. Next, there is a soft vinyl piece that frames the radio, on the left
side. With the console removed, you can slide it away to reveal a screw-undo
it. Remove the drivers side carpeting, and you're ready to operate. The
bracket is a pain, and may have to be cut out. Many owners have reported that
they dont need to attach the radio to a bracket as the "clamshell" effect from
the console holds the radio in place. The job is not that easy, but with
patience can be done.
Since the radio info was posted, Jensen has a nice unit that should fit. It
has a radio, tape and a CD in one unit! It got a good review in Car Audio
magazine. Most folks go for the Pioneer units, which are cheaper, but lack a
tape deck.
Also pick up a Chrysler wiring harness, although I found they actually list
Alfa on the package, which is refreshing.
Don
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:29:59 -0500
From: Bob K
Subject: Eclipse/Fujitsu Ten Stereo Repairs
Nizam wrote:
"Hi guys,
Sometime ago someone posted the name/phone number of an establishment
(in NY?) that fixed/repaired
Fujitsu Ten stereos/amps. I seem to have deleted that posting. Does
anyone have a copy of that info?
I'm trying to source a CD player for my 164LS - they seem to be hard to
come by these days."
Nizam -
I was the source of that info.
The place is in upstate New York. They gave me an estimate on the day
they received my unit, and shipped it back the next day. They guaranty
their work for a year and seem as straight as can be. I recommend them.
Their number is 1-800-448-0944. No connection with them, etc.
United Radio
5705 Enterprise Parkway
East Syracuse, NY 13057
Bob
From: karl.doll@sanjose.vlsi.com (Karl Doll)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:14:39 -0800
Subject: No more hamburgers for my 164LS!
This is an FYI for 164LS owners and an interesting anecdote for others:
Last night my infrared transmitter failed to open my car doors for the
second time in a month. It was in the exact same spot as the last time, in
front of a red-neon covered In-n-Out Burger stand (a great California
institution!) in Milpitas California.
After some persistent "point-and-shoot" with the transmitter, which was
already drawing some attention, I decided to set off the alarm and dive
into the trunk to disable the alarm. Meanwhile dozens of people were
watching and considered calling the police. It occurred to me what it was:
the red neon after dark! This can happen for all infrared transmitters in
the vicinity of neon signs, but red is particularly close to the proper
wavelength. If you;re ever in a bar or similar establishment and and the TV
remote control doesn't work well, look for a neon sign near the front of
the TV...same phenomenon!
From: "johnb@nwlink.com" <johnb@nwlink.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 22:40:12 -0800
Subject: 164 keyless entry
As far as I can remember, the 164 keyless entry went from radio to =
infrared when the 4-valve per cylinder v-6 was introduced (LS and Quad.) =
in 1994. So stay away from red neon with your LS or Quad!
Cheers,
John Burrows
NWARC Webmaster
http://www.nwlink.com/~johnb/nwarc/
From: richard@specialix.co.uk
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:52:54 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: 164 keyless entry
> The system is definitely different in the '94 cars...inferior in my opinion.
> You have to be right at the window for it to work. Don't even try
> from inside a pocket! The transmitter on the key fob has a little
> red window that looks very much like an infrared LED.
>
> - --
> Colin Verrilli <verrilli@vnet.ibm.com> IBM Raleigh, NC
Here in England the radio transmitters are totally discredited. Car
thieves commonly have "grabbers" which sample your radio keyfob when you
lock the car. They can do this from the other side of the street, so you
have no idea your security is compromised. They simply wait until you
are out of sight, use the grabber to imitate your car keyfob transmitter
and then hotwire as normal.
From: alpo4@juno.com (Alvin L. Porter)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 22:20:26 EST
Subject: Oil, O2 Sensor, transmitter, pipes
[...clip...]
On alarm transmitters: mine didn't come with one (bought it used), and
most dealers said I was SOL unless I bought a new alarm system. Finally
found a service bulletin that tells you where to find the frequency code
and how to solder a new transmitter to match your code. E-mail me if you
want details.
From: karlcchen@juno.com (KARL C CHEN)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:15:37 -0700
Subject: 164 keyless entry remote pad successfully coded
The last time it does not work is because I assume
the all nine pins is in sequential order. After
I traced the circuit board with multi-tester
it turn out that pin 8 and 9 are swapped.
Here is what's looks like:
old circuit board, code soldering points:
1
2
3
4
5
6
9 7
8 *
New circuit board, code soldering points:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
9
8
Note: now it is in a row, but just move 9 and 8
under 7, they are not nice enough to make
it into sequential order.
If your code number does not require soldering
points 8 or 9, then you will not notice the
trick here. It cost me one frustrating night !
After soldering, you may need to adjust capacitor
using a plastic screw drivers. Or you can use a
metal screw driver and just turn a little bit at
a time to test it.
Karl 92 168S
Please refer to technical service bulletins if
you don't know what I am talking about.
From: mborn@brynmawr.edu (Matthew Born)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 12:03:03 -0500
Subject: 164 alarm
>>>>>I have just acquired a 95 164Q and the parking lights do not flash when the
remote is used.
John, it's probably a fuse. Precisely this happened to my 164Q. There are
two, one in the fuse box and another, perhaps in the trunk? I suspected a
fuse immediately and checked the box in the passenger compartment. That
fuse was fine, so I dismissed that as a problem. The car was going in for
20k service anyway, so I mentioned it to the dealer. Turns out there's
another fuse located remotely, but I've already forgotten where. I kind of
recall it being in the trunk, perhaps by the battery? I could be wrong
about the location. But it was the same deal -- the alarm set, but the
lights did not flash on setting or disarming.
Matthew "hmmm, where'd I put those Blizzaks?" Born
Chilly Philly
The other fuse is in the trunk, next to the battery. cbv
From: LEE@jtecsmtp.perth.jtec.com.au (Lee Scanlan)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:02 EAD
Subject: Alarm, remote control
John from Dublin writes:
>The transmit frequency of the remote unit can sometimes drift over
>time. They can be adjusted but this is not advised unless you have
>access to at least a high frequency spectrum analyser and another
>remote unit that works correctly.
..... have a specialist look at it
The "specialist" will no doubt take the remote transmitter cover off and
with a small plastic screwdriver adjust the trim capacitor while
retreating from the car until it works from a useful distance. Done this
several times to the RF type of key with good results.
From: JALFAjr <JALFAjr@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 21:27:12 EST
Subject: Re: 164 Q remote
I thought I would relate this information to the Digest, as it might help
someone else.
On Thursday, I parked my 164 Q in the garage and set the alarm with the remote
and everything was fine.
Aside- One of the negatives on the Q as opposed to my S has been the remote.
I liked the radio remote as it didn't have to be pointed at the sensor, and I
had to be at the driver or passenger windows for the Q remote to work
reliably. (once in awhile it would work through the rear window, but usually
not.) Also, the batteries were new in late November right after I bought the
car so I was pretty sure it wasn't the batteries. end aside.
Well, to continue, on Thursday I was going to lunch and the remote would NOT
unlock the car. Tried several times, finally had to open trunk, which set off
the alarm, and disarm it with the key. Went to the lunch place, parked, tried
again, still didn't work, came back, still didn't work, etc.
Well, I got the manual out to see if there was any help there, which there
wasn't. Then opened the remote and did some checking . The light that
indicates the remote is activated was working, so I was again reasurred it
wasn't the batteries. Well, in briefly moving the infrared bulb, it came
loose first on one lead and then on the other lead. It looked like both leads
had "cold solder" joints. I put all the parts back in the remote so I could
look at them more in depth at home.
Well, when I got home, I took the remote apart again, got the soldering gun
out and soldered in the lamp. When I tried it, the remote was now working.
And I can say, that after two days of using the resoldered lamp remote, I am
much happier with the infrared remote. I did some rather extensive tests to
see exactly how well the remote was now working. I can now lock and unlock
the car through the rear window, on first click from either side, front or
rear (avoiding the headrests) and have even managed to operate the locks from
off center through the windshield, whereas before I could never reliably get
the remote to operate through the rear side windows and never through the
windshield.
My satisfaction level with the Q has gone up a notch, now that the remote is
working as it should have all along. If your infrared remote is not doing all
the things I just described, and you have new batteries, then you might try
re-soldering the infrared lamp.
John Justus
1995 164 Q
1991 164 S
1971 1750 GTV
From: Karl Doll <karl.doll@sanjose.vlsi.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:30:44 -0700
Subject: 164Q/LS Remotes
>> On Thursday, I parked my 164 Q in the garage and set the alarm with the
>>remote
and everything was fine.
The light that
indicates the remote is activated was working, so I was again reasurred it
wasn't the batteries. Well, in briefly moving the infrared bulb, it came
loose first on one lead and then on the other lead. It looked like both leads
had "cold solder" joints. I put all the parts back in the remote so I could
look at them more in depth at home.
>>
Mine recently had a clean break on the transmitter LED. Once again, I dove
into the trunk with the alarm blaring to disable it. (Second time since my
famous trip to the Burger joint that had lotsa red neon that interfered
with my alarm system.)
Dealer (Camissa, Burlingame California) gave me 2 new FOBs and a new alarm
module free under warranty.
Karl
Sunnyvale, CA
'95 164LS (5 months to go under dealer warranty and getting nervous!)
From: Carguy mb <Carguymb@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:04:20 EST
Subject: Re: 164 24v remotes
Colin Verrilli wrote:
> As long as we're talking about the LS/Q remote, I have a question...
> If the doors are locked with the key (in order to avoid embarassing
> accidental alarm triggering), is it always necessary to press the remote
> button twice to unlock the doors? The first press seems to arm the alarm
> and the second seems to disarm and unlock the doors. Annoying...
Yes, it is, and yes, it is.
Martin Bullen
'95 164Q
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:34:19 +0100
From: "Birkett, Graham" <GS-Birkett@bdp.co.uk>
Subject: Re V&7 #80 164LS Alarm
Yes there is a difference between the '94 & '95 models. You only need a
working remote to reprogram the '94.
Forthe '95 you need the 4 digit lockout code. If you ain't got it then it's
time to buy a new receiver (200ishGBP) which I guess comes with a code. I
don't think you actually need the code for your existing remote as the
receiver 'reads' it. Otherwise, stay with one remote and don't lose it!! See
the Colins FAQ's for more info.
94 164 24V Super (LS)
Always Looking For Another (way to improve it)
Cheshire, UK.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:40:45 +0100
From: "Birkett, Graham"
Subject: 164 alarms/Remotes
Hi Colin,
I see one of my AD posts has made it to the Tech Notes. The original query
in V7No.80 was:-
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 13:43:35 -0500
From: Bernie & Diana Bennett
Subject: Re: 164 Alarm
John:
I've been told that the problem I have is as you state in para.
1.below.I think there is a difference between the 1994 and 1995? What
Alfa told my mechanic was I could no longer reprogram my since ithad
autolocked out?All the above question marks indicate I am still
gathering info?
bjbJALFAjr@aol.com wrote:
>
> Bernie,
>
> There is a technical bulletin on the alarm (40.95.03). The alarm auto locks
> out after using for 256 times if you don't lock it out manually. It only
> remembers 4 remotes and erases the first if 5 are memorized. You need to have
> the unlock codes to set the remote.
>
> I only had one remote with my 95 164Q and purchased another from Knauz. I
> used the technical bulletin and it still took me well over an hour to get the
> flashing lights down well enough to get the new one programmed in. I got a
> number with my new remote that doesn't resemble the numbers required, and I
> tried every combination of them. But luckily I had two numbers from the
> previous owner, only one remote, but both numbers worked.>
> John Justus
My response ( now in the Tech Notes) was:-
Yes there is a difference between the '94 & '95 models. You only need a
working remote to reprogram the '94.
For the '95 you need the 4 digit lockout code. If you ain't got it then it's
time to buy a new receiver (200ishGBP) which I guess comes with a code. I
don't think you actually need the code for your existing remote as the
receiver 'reads' it. Otherwise, stay with one remote and don't lose it!! See
the Colins FAQ's for more info.
Which is not easy to understand without the previous questions. You may wish
to add these or replace the entry with the following definitive statement I
made in a subequent off-line discussion with a digester:-
Hi Eric,
Here's what I know!
There were 3 types of alarm activation on the facelift models:-
1993 - radio transmitter type. Can be distinguished by lack of IR dome next
to the interior rearview mirror. Remote can be recoded by resoldering the
internal connections - see Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) no. 40.95.02.
I recall there were some variations to this which have been detailed by some
AD correspondents in Colins Tech. Notes.
1994 - initial IR type. This can be programmed to accept new remotes so long
as you have at least one working remote to 'unlock' the program.According to
my Cardisc, the procedure is:-
1.press and hold the button to the left of the IR dome. The LED will flash.
2.still holding the button, fire your current remote @ the dome. The LED
should illuminate continuously.
3.fire your 'new' remote at the dome. The LED should go out showing the new
remote has been accepted..
4.release the button. The LED should now flash for about 8 secs.
1995 - modified IR type. This can be programmed to accept a new remote
provided you have the 4 digit code to 'unlock' the program - see TSB no.
40.95.01 and 40.95.03.
94 164 24V Super (LS)
Cheshire, UK.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:24:16 EST
From: JALFAjr@aol.com
Subject: Re: 164 Alarm
I have the IR (infrared) alarm on my 95 Q and here are a couple of things that
I have found.
The remote that came with the car (I bought it used in 97) had a SINGLE bulb
to create the signal. The remote worked originally from anywhere near the
driver or passenger front doors all the time, and sometimes through the rear
window. Then it quit working one day while I was at lunch. Had to use the
key and then turn off the alarm. A quick look at the interior of the remote
showed that one terminal of the bulb had a cold solder joint. (Soldered
mechanically, but not melted to the bulb terminal) A touch of the soldering
iron at home cured this problem and it went back to how it had been.
Then a few months later, I bought a remote from Knauz in Chicago, as I wanted
a second remote. The new remote has TWO bulbs. It will open the car from
15-20 feet away if I point it right and always opens through the back window.
If you need more distance, you might try a new remote. Or in mine, the
original remote has space for two bulbs, so maybe you could get another bulb
and solder it in.
Another thing I tried, just as a lark, was to see if my Universal Remote for
my stereo stuff would record the signal. Didn't work as far as I could tell,
as the stereo remote gave an error reading. You might see if other learning
remotes work. Might be too big to carry around, but could be good for storing
the code.
John Justus
1995 164Q
1971 1750 GTV
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:58:46 -0500
From: Peter
Subject: 164 Alarm Battery
THERE IS A BATTERY IN SIDE THE ALARM HORN WHICH THE HORN IS LOCATED ON THE TRUN
K RIGHT HAND SIDE.YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE HORN COMPLETLY(MAKE SUER YOU SHUT THE
ALARM OFF WITH THE KEY AT THE HORN)REMOVE THE 4 SCREWS & YOU WILL SEE THE BATTE
RY INSIDE.YOU CAN PURCHASE THE BATTERY AT ANY OF YOUR LOCAL RADIO SHACK OR ELEC
TRONIC STORE.
From: unltd-ltd@juno.com (B. D. Zelazny)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:25:28 EST
Subject: Seized 164 Power Seats
Skip wrote in AD v4 #26:
>
>On another issue, the power seats (both driver and passenger side)
>no longer possess a vertical adjustment. I note that a year ago on
>this list, someone mentioned a "blue box" adjustment for this
>problem and someone else mentioned "fiddling" with the seat to get
>it to work. Does anyone have any details on how to fix this problem??
>
Try gently tapping on the power units under the seats. Gradually increase
the force of the taps. This may free up the seized power unit. Don't be
too aggressive with the tapping, though.
Ciao,
Bernardo
----------------------
From: Tony Wood <tonywood@bailiwick.win-uk.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:24:24
Subject: 164L (fwd)
FORWARDED MAIL ------- From: tonywood@bailiwick.win-uk.net (Tony Wood)
Date: 22 Feb 97
Originally To: dgruesbeck@voyager.net
Hi Douglas
You asked in A-D:
>It has a couple of things that need to
>be fixed on it though. One being the power seats. Neither one works. I
>checked the fuses and there was none in it for the seats. I replaced it
>and still not working. Any ideas about where to look would be
>appreciated.
A few tips:
1. Under each front seat is a multi-pin plug. One of these got
kicked apart by a rear-seat passenger once, so check both are
properly connected.
2. If seat is in extreme position (fully forward or fully back) the
motor can stick. Tip in use is to back off a bit before leaving the
seat (e.g.) fully back for access to footwell or console. Getting
them unstuck is a matter of tapping and wiggling things to find a
non-null point on the motor commutator.
3. Switches not regularly used can oxidise and apparently not
work. Just switch them back and forth repeatedly to clean the
contacts, then they will work OK. The switches come apart fairly
easily, so you never need to replace them. Just be careful as you
separate the body of the switch so things don't fly out, and note
which way round the toggle/ contact piece goes (or you might have to
take it apart again!). It is fiddly to do, but once you've done
one, it seems easy. A perfectionist puts Vaseline on the contacts.
4. Earth (American = 'Ground') for the seats is under centre
console just to the rear of the handbrake IIRC. Because it's in dry
conditions there, I found it sound (when I was trying to diagnose
the fault due to a kicked-apart plug under the seat! :-( ).
-------------------------
From: Tony Wood <tonywood@bailiwick.win-uk.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:36:48
Subject: Re: Seat/window switches on 164
>On the subject of non working 164 power seats:
...snip...
>I presume the contacts are bad in the switch and
>working the switch tends to wipe the contacts somewhat. ... I took a
>switch partially apart, but stopped when
>it looked like the only way in was to break it. If anyone knows the secret,
>please post it.
This is side view for the switches on my '89 164:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX < --- this is the bit you see
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXpXXXXXX < --- p is the pivot on which it seesaws
pXXXXXXXXXXXq < --- p and q are clips to hold switch
XXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXX
MM MM XX < --- M is terminal, X is plastic guide
MM MM XX
Method:
Inset a screwdriver blade just over pivot 'p' so handle is up in this
diagram. Prise gently apart one side at a time and it will come
apart very easily. 'Reassembly is reverse of disassembly ;-) '.
Don't let it fly apart before you note how the bits are assembled or
you may have to do the job twice.
From: tonywood@bailiwick.win-uk.net (Tony Wood)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:58:27
Subject: 164 seat motors
>------------------------------
>
>From: Gruesbeck Enterprises <dgruesbeck@voyager.net>
>Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 19:37:31 -0400
>Subject: 164L 1/3 power seats
>
> Have made tremendous progress in solving seat moving problems.
>Finally found missing fuse thanks to cardisc cd. Replaced it and now the
>seat backs are both mobile. Thats the good news. The rest of the story
>is that is all that moves. All other switches have power but motors are
>not working even after nice rap with hammer. Neither is in full up or
>down or forward setting. Have checked connections under seats and they
>are all together and have gotten a good dose of Deoxit5. Any suggestions
>short of removing seats and pulling motors would be appreciated.
>Suggestions involving removing seats and motors will be accepted also.
Douglas
I remember when one of my front seats was dead and of course I
suspected the usual dud earth ('ground') fault. Took it all apart
and found nothing.
Only then did I find that a rear-seat passenger had kicked the plug
apart under the seat; all it had needed was plugging it in again, and
putting the wires in a less vulnerable position!
Hope your problem is that simple.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:17:57 -0500
From: doskow@iucf.indiana.edu (MEL ODIOUS)
Subject: the 164 power seat fuse thang.
Hi! the power seat fuse on a 1991 164L has finally bin located!
-it's not powered through another fuse for something else in the
main or auxiliary fuse box as 1 shop told me
-it's not located in the console under the small tray behind the
coin holder as another told me, that's just the seat heating fuses
-it's not that the seats systems are wired directly to power without
a fuse as another told me.
-it's not in the main fusebox in the slot with a small picture of
a seat either
-it's not in the battery compartment in the trunk either
>it it actually where the vague arrows in the owners manual &
service manuals show near the fuse boxes, but not to the
left but to the right of the steering column stuffed behind
the fuse & relay for the radio/antenna and the one for the
fuel door opening. (on USA left hand drive car).
now i'm ready to work on the real problems!
Subject: Re: 164L electrical problems (seats)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 98 12:30:18 -0400
From: "Colin Verrilli" <verrilli@VNET.IBM.COM>
ascher@juno.com (ascher baer) writes:
> the scary thing is that my seats work and don't work for exactly the same
> functions.(drivers seat goes back/forth, backrest works, no up/down, the
> passenger only goes up/down and backrest no back/forth !!!!!!!). either
> it's a conspiracy or these cars are prone to the same problems (164,
> right). some more irony: we've got five days of rain in the forecast
> and the passenger window won't shut all the way.
>
> would you please direct me to any previous a.d. information on this and
> maybe elaborate on some of the solutions (i.e. how to jiggle the
> seats... and what exactly is a "blue box"?)
The "blue box" was the official fix for the seat motor problem for the '91
164. It connects into the wiring harness for each seat. Not sure exactly
what it does (maybe provides a boost of voltage for the end-of-travel
situation??). I have two more of these for sale if anyone wants them
(see www address below). I had a report from one person that they do work...